Saturday, January 15, 2011

Dennis Prager - 'Middle East Conflict is The Easiest in The World to Describe'

Video embedded below.

13 comments:

  1. Ian Dubrowsky1/16/2011 1:29 AM

    This is pretty bad propaganda.

    Even secular Israelis probably don't believe this kind of bull, at least the israelis who run the israeli government don't:

    http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/wikileaksdokumenter/article3972838.ece

    That's a document where Olmert admits that Israel will eventually have to deal with Hamas. As opposed to breaking ceasefires while making the ridiculous demand that people recognize you as a special ethnic state, no one but israel is doing that.

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  2. @Ian Dubrowsky - "This is pretty bad propaganda." - which part?

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  3. Ian Dubrowksy1/19/2011 3:53 PM

    It's bad in every which way that propaganda could be bad. It lies- mixes lies with half truths, mixes truth and lies with editorial opinion- for the purpose it seems of deluding an english speaking audience (americans) about their own culpability in supporting Israel and hence perpetuating the conflict.

    Yad Vashem had very poignant examples of propaganda- ways of framing historical narrative and "informing"- that are pretty reminiscent.

    I think most israelis I know would watch this and laugh- though the information they get isn't much better then what Americans get about the conflict. The ones who work for the government at least have a much more lucid view of the enterprise Israel is actually engaged in.

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  4. @Ian Dubrowksy - You do realize that you did not give any examples, right?

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  5. Ian Dubrowsky1/20/2011 4:45 PM

    To understand why this is a lie, is to understand the conflict itself.

    for starters try "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe:

    http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851684670

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  6. @Ian Dubrowksy - You realize that you still have not given any examples; right?

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  7. Ian Dubrowsky1/23/2011 12:41 AM

    you realize I just gave you evidence of a massive ethnic cleansing right?

    Unless Dennis Prager wants to take that ethnic cleansing into consideration, then he is just a propagandist.

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  8. @Ian Dubrowsky - perhaps you do not understand what I am looking for when I ask for an example;

    "in the video Prager said ____________, but the truth is actually ________________."

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  9. Ian Dubrowsky1/24/2011 1:01 PM

    In the video Prager said "many arabs and muslims do not recognize the right of israel to exist as a Jewish state", the truth is the Iranian government, Hezbollah, the PLO, and even Hamas and have all said they would accept whatever peace deal the palestinian people wanted, this doesn't mean anyone has to recognize a "jewish state"- especially when Israel does not recognize a Palestinian state. That was the first thing he said in the video, and its a lie- the implication that today muslim states are only trying to push the jews into the sea, is a paranoid fantasy.

    If your interested in truth and not propaganda (suspect), then you would know that The Qatar satellite channel Aljazeera has gotten hold of some 1600 documents from the Palestine Authority regarding negotiations with Israel, which cast the Israelis, the Americans and the Fatah faction of Palestinians in the worst possible light. The leaked documents were shared exclusively with The Guardian newspaper.

    The documents could well destroy the Palestine Liberation Organization, a coalition of parties that includes Fatah, which is led by Palestine Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Among the politicians who comes off the worst in these documents is Saeb Erekat. The Palestinian Authority is revealed as feeble as a kitten. Like a a spurned suitor, Erekat kept offering the Israelis more and more, and they kept rejecting his overtures.

    The documents have frank admissions. Tzipi Livni said:

    “Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible . . . the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we’ll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state”. She conceded that it had been “the policy of the government for a really long time”.

    Although she said that in 2007 the Olmert government was not following this policy, she admitted some parties were. And, of course, in February 2009, parties came to power that would not so much as give Palestinians a glass of water.

    like I said, Livni has a much clearer idea about what it is Israel is actually engaged in, then Israel's fanatic supporters in the U.S., like Prager

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  10. @Ian Dubrowsky - "In the video Prager said "many arabs and muslims do not recognize the right of israel to exist as a Jewish state", ... this doesn't mean anyone has to recognize a "jewish state"". Translation -> 'Prager said that many Arabs and Muslims do not recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state and he is correct'. If that is your best (only?) example of 'propaganda' it could be time for you to concede the point.

    I am aware of the documents and am going through some of them. Will have a post on it after I do a bit more reading. That is outside focus of this post or your propaganda post. I have a feeling the comment thread on that post may get interesting.

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  11. Ian dubrowsky1/25/2011 11:02 AM

    Haha I think you just revealed that don't understand what propaganda is. It's far from the only serious error in the video I just don't want to spend that much time engaging with it when I don't thinknyou are intellectually mature enough to even grasp the concept I am talking about.

    I tried to give you a resource that will help you understand what is going on, until you want to take that seriously I have very little interest in helping you. If you want to play with intellectually dishonest people like prager then go ahead it's your life.

    I'll just say that anyone who purports to offer a history of the conflict without including the ethnicncleanseing of 1948 is the same as someone making a video explaining a "Jewish German" conflict and leaving out the part about the holocaust . It's propaganda.

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  12. @Ian dubrowsky - "It's far from the only serious error in the video I just don't want to spend that much time engaging with it when I don't thinknyou are intellectually mature enough to even grasp the concept I am talking about." Translation -> I really do not have anything to back up my claim but I do not want to admit that I was wrong.

    "ethnicncleanseing of 1948" -> you mean the effort to push the Jews into the sea? I think you are really grasping now. For your self diagnosis purposes; it tends to happen around the time you throw in a completely unrelated/called for Nazi reference.

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  13. Ian Dubrowsky1/27/2011 2:56 PM

    "Translation -> I really do not have anything to back up my claim but I do not want to admit that I was wrong."

    haha Maybe I actually think you are not an intellectually mature person capable of dealing with actual history that may counter your self-serving Jewish ethno-supremacist narrative, let alone what it means for something to be propaganda. Just a hint, in this video it is the facts that he leaves out that make it propaganda which could fill a book, like yes the massive ethnic cleansing israelis undertook of the palestinian population in 1948. Prager doesn't want to tell you about that part. He also doesn't want to talk about the cables al jazeera just realeased either, because then he would have to be honest about who was keeping the conflict going.

    Your lack of ability to take the facts of that event seriously just underscores why engaging with you about this could just be a total waste of time on my part. but assuming its not, the nazi comparisons feel justified because of the level of denialism about israeli culpability for war crimes you exhibit. It's truly amazing. You would be disgusted at anyone who denies parts about the Halocaust known to be true, so why you do that when it comes to crimes committed by Israel's is odd.

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